I have a plot bunny. It has fangs, and huge pointy teeth...

[boogiewoogiebuglegal]

So, in Chapter Three of "The Ability to Stop" I brought up the issue of exactly WTF Howard Stark was doing with five bags of super soldier serum in the trunk of his car in 1991. It was a plot point I always meant to get back to in the main story, but the way the story is developing now...I don't think I'm gonna get there.

That's (most of) the plot bunny.

CACW left a fair few things dangling, not the least of which are the implications of Howard Stark being in possession of that super soldier serum. I would like to believe that he was going to turn it over to SHIELD, but Hydra got to him first. But then I remember the Howard Stark of "Agent Carter," who took the last vial of Steve Rogers' blood so he could use it for his own purposes. Fast forward a couple of decades and what I suspect are some very poor life choices, and the 1990s Howard Stark could well have tried to recreate the serum (and succeeded) with the aid of either Hydra or some Hydra-adjacent group. Maybe he realized at the last what and who he was really working for. Or maybe he was simply too much of a liability for them (for whatever reason) and Hydra decided they didn't need Howard Stark around anymore.

It's something I'm going to have to hash out. Along with---where did Hydra get the tech for Bucky's arm? I have an uncomfortable suspicion about that too....

Comments

[amarriageoftrueminds]

Oooo, I'd be very interested to hear your theories on the origins of Bucky's arm?

(...why do I suddenly get the funny feeling that Tony would've ended up superserum'd if his dad had had his way?)

[boogiewoogiebuglegal]

Well, one of the (super irritating) things about CACW was all the hooks it threw out there but never did anything with. In the fight scene between Bucky and T'Challa, there's a point where there's some kind of reaction between Bucky's arm and the ring T'Challa wore. (They never explain that, because of course they don't.)

I headcanon that:

1) Bucky's arm is made from vibranium
2) So is T'Challa's ring
3) Hence the reaction

And what else is made from vibranium?

Captain America's shield, which---in AOU---comes from Wakandan vibranium.

Sooo...it seems like Howard got some vibranium by some illicit means (because this is Howard Stark) and made the shield. And later on, he made Bucky's arm. Who else has the skill to work with it, who isn't Wakandan? (I can't see Hydra hiring a Wakandan scientist, can you?)

Now the hard part is this: did Howard KNOW he was working on a replacement arm for a brutalized American POW? IOW, was he actively working for Hydra (or proto-Hydra) or not? Because the thing that strikes me about Hydra (and its Nazi analogues) is that evil (or working for evil) isn't only a set of active choices. It's also choosing not to be aware of the warning signs if your "employers" can get you a sample of the rarest metal on earth that makes a shield for an American hero. And if they call in a favor to make a replacement arm...well, the Howard Stark of "Agent Carter" certainly had what I would call a flexible morality. Maybe he knew, and chose not to know.

[amarriageoftrueminds]

My impression was that Zola was the one to design the arm, since he was there when Bucky woke up -- but you make an excellent point about vibranium!

The circle of people outside Wakanda vying for vibranium must have been minuscule, especially post-war; I wonder if Howard and Zola ever bumped into each other at some precious metals auction, like Tony and Ulysses Klaue (Hmm! Interesting parallel there - a one-armed/cyborg character + Tony = some kind of hint maybe?)

Or maybe, since Zola joined SHIELD under operation paperclip, whatever vibranium source Howard had was handed over to Zola (and he made the arm out of it?)

The fact that Zola also ended up as an AI, in America, and the only other character seen to create AIs is Tony... who already knew about robotics when he was a kid... so must've learned that from his father... that's too many coincidences!

[boogiewoogiebuglegal]

I think Zola was batshit crazy, and probably brilliant. But I don't think he designed the arm, or at least, didn't design it alone. The arm itself is so advanced---and while I find the fan theories that it has alien origins to be VERY persuasive, if it didn't come from that, then...who might be brilliant enough to make that, and have enough of the raw materials? It could be Zola, but I headcanon that it was Howard Stark. So much misused brilliance...and if you look at season 1 of "Agent Carter," the misuse of Howard's abandoned gadgets fueled more than half the plotlines.

And here's another thing---all of the misused gadgets from that season only became dangerous because he didn't destroy them when he had the chance. That's a certain specific kind of arrogance, the kind that might also make a man think he could recreate the super soldier serum at no risk to himself. Hmmm...

[amarriageoftrueminds]

You've just made me think of something - Zola's motivation for making all the things he made!

It came off in First Avenger that fear of Redskull was a big driving force behind him, like 'welp I better make this for him and make it work or else, even if it has dire consequences'.

But Bucky's arm must've been made (if not designed?) after Redskull died, when Zola was safe, so ... without that stick/carrot driving force would Zola have given a vibranium fist to a man who (at that time) was not safe for a Hydra minion to be around? I guess it depends how scared he was of (whoever took over Hydra and ordered the Winter Soldier program created).

But that's one argument in favour of the arm designer being someone else...

Maybe the arm (or the shell of it) started off as a prototype Iron Man suit kind of thing Howard was working on? (Knights in armour and have swords and shields = if he's made a shield, it seems plausible that he would've thought of completing the ensemble!) Or maybe it was always meant to be a prosthetic, and started life as a post-WWI design for injured soldiers? (I think the design must've existed pre-fall for the arm to have been built and put on so soon after Bucky's fall; Zola hadn't aged at all when Bucky woke up with it!)

One thing's for sure: Howard Stark definitely would not have cast the one ring into the fires of Mount Doom.

[boogiewoogiebuglegal]

Yeah, no. Howard Stark would have been Isildur, convinced HE could control the One Ring.

I think the idea of the arm may have come from Howard's brief (because it was unprofitable) foray into advanced prosthetics--- I mean, he was a businessman, and if the military said, "Great job, but it's too expensive and we're not buying," then he'd have stopped. Even for someone of a more altruistic bent, things don't get built en masse without funding. So. He has this prototype arm and it's just sitting around and...? Maybe? Did Zola steal his designs and the prototype? Did he convince Howard Stark to come and try it out on a "volunteer"?

I have questions. So. Many. Questions.

[amarriageoftrueminds]

Yeah, it being made of vibranium ... it may as well be gold-plated and diamond encrusted ... that smacks of a one-off Special Design like 'obviously this would never be put into mass production because it's waay too expensive.' Kind of like a supercar!

It's a good cover-all answer that Howard had an old design idea knocking around, Zola got the plans once he 'defected' via OP, and then made it out of vibranium for the Fist of Hydra.

(Also guarantees Hydra knows where all their spare precious vibranium is; and they did keep Bucky in a bank vault, didn't they?)

Given that Zola was able to synthesise the superserum successfully (if only once, on Bucky) there's a possibility he'd have the bio-engineering wherewithal to install the arm without Howard ever knowing it had been used (not like Zola was the only scientist around; from Bucky's flashbacks looks like he had a team) but Zola's wasn't the original design??

Still, if Howard knew enough about vibranium to get hold of it for the shield, he had to have noticed when a massive chunk of the world's stock had gone mysteriously missing and remained unaccounted for!

ps. sorry, btw, I didn't mean to divebomb ur post like this!

[boogiewoogiebuglegal]

LOL, divebomb away. :D

Anyway, this is one hell of a lot of food for the plot bunny---we'll see what comes out of all of it. But I really do lean towards the idea that Howard Stark was likely Hydra-adjacent. He does strike me as more mercenary, in some ways, than his son, more likely to be willingly ignorant if that ignorance could bring him some benefit.

[amarriageoftrueminds]

Can't say I disagree! If the shoe fits...